1987 Telephone interview of Bill Phillips
A transcription of a taped conversation with Bill Phillips. Text in parentheses are the words of the interviewer identified as "Me". (Oklahoma is a "one-party consent" state, meaning any one person in a telephone conversation can legally tape it.)
Wed. July 1, 1987 Conversation with Bill Phillips - Wynnewood, OK; 405-665-4039 Me: I read a NOLA article where you were related to the Daltons and was trying to find someone who had some knowledge of the Daltons to find a connection to Vails Etc. Bill: I was just thumbing through a book here, some of mine goes real back, like 1798 and along in there, on the John Elijah Dalton and of course James Lewis Dalton Jr. was the father of James Lewis and he was the father of the Dalton gang, you know, the outlaw bunch. I could send you some literature. You might could come up with more than I could. To answer you right off, the Vail don't ring a bell. Me: Have you ever heard of the surname Jarrett? Bill: Adeline was a Younger, you know and Charles Younger was her father. I have a copy of that will if you would like a copy of that will. Me: I have a copy of that will. Bill: Well it's interesting, isn't it? Well, do you happen to have a book called "In Search of the Daltons" by Phillip Steele? A lot of information in that goes way back. You mentioned an article in that had my name in it. Did it come out in your paper that had my name in it? Did it come out in your paper? Me: It was in a NOLA article. Bill: Oh, that NOLA article. Me: You subscribe to NOLA, don't you? That's where I saw it and was trying to find Vail's connection. Bill: Is it just that one story telling about, oh they have asked for another story, but I'm sure it ain't had time to come out. Was this several months back? Me: Yes, just in their newsletter saying they had found some relatives. Bill: I wrote tons of letters but anyway, you Bill Dalton, he was one of the outlaw gang. You've heard of Bill Dalton, William. Well now, she took his body and the kids and went back to California. He was killed over here at Pooleville, just south of here. She had a boy and a girl and I had just now come up with the son of Charles Coleman, he was about 9 years old whenever Bill got killed. Well anyway he died in 1967, I believe, then him and his wife had four sons and one daughter and I feel like they're still living because I got a notation from a funeral home in California and Charles Coleman's wife died after he did but she died at 81 years old and she died in 1967, no 1969, I'm sorry, he died in '67 and she was 82 years old. The children were still living at that time and says survivors include one daughter, Mrs. Herbert Wilson of Lotter(?), California and four sons, William Dalton of Sacramento and Norman D. Dalton of Placerville, Edgar of Sacramento and Elmer of Lincoln. So I feel like they are still living and also said they were survived by fourteen grandchildren and twenty-nine grandchildren, cause you know those would still be living. I sure would like to get in touch with them. I've been trying real hard and then you know one of the girls who died in 1901, Nancy, they called "Nannie", well you know she had one son named Roy Clute, well I can't find anything on him, but he was living over in, him and his wife, over it Estes Park, Colorado and he would be in the eighties. I don't know if he is still living or not, but I've been trying hard to find him also. Me: Have you ever been to the Dalton Museum in Coffeyville? Bill: I just went last Saturday and went out to the cemetery. They were killed in 1892 and Robert was born in 1869 and Grat was 1861. Me: Wasn't Grat born in Lawrence, Kansas? Bill: Well, I was thinking he was, but about all my records show Missouri, but I'm not sure. But they lived in Kansas and went to Missouri. But your records show one was born in Kansas? Me: I thought Grat was born in Lawrence, but I'm not sure, I'd have to look and see where I got that. Bill: I have death certificates on almost all of them. Me: Do you have the death certificate on Leona? Have you seen that? It says William Dalton was her father -- is that a mistake or what? Bill: Yes, that is, that info was given by her nephew, Roy Clute. Have seen that death certificate: Me: Yes Bill: Where did you see yours at? Me: I sent to Oklahoma City for it and got a copy from vital records. Bill: Yes, that's where I got mine. Yes it had father William Dalton, I know that wasn't correct, well that was just given in by Roy. Me: And too on her obit out of Kingfisher, it says father William Dalton of Kansas. They must have got that from Roy too. Bill: No, they just made a mistake on that. You know I wrote for her obit. I wrote to historical society in Oklahoma City for a copy of that. Do you have an obit on Cole? Me: No, I went to Independence, Kansas and got information there. Have you ever been to the court house there? Have you seen Latta's book? Bill: Yes, I have that book. Me: I have copies of the newspapers from Coffeyville on microfilm that pertain to the Daltons. Bill: I'd like to have a copy of that if it's no problem for you. I have an obit of Simon, he's the youngest and I have a story that just came out of Longview, Texas, has my name in there. You know Bill Dalton, they helped rob that bank, that was the last one they did and I've got that well, you've got that, don't you? Then I have from Missouri State Historical, it's an old paper, you might be interested in that, my address is Bill Phillips, 402 W. Seminole, Wynnewood, Oklahoma 73098. The oldest son of the immediate family was Charles Benjamin. He became mentally ill and went to Fort Supply Western Hospital and I have his death certificate and they say he is buried there in Fort Supply Grave #590 and that lady wrote me twice and sent me quite a bit of information, but not all I wanted. but she talked like they weren't allowed to give out too much info. I can't figure out why they buried him there. Well, Leona would have went for him and I often wondered about Nancy and Nanny Clute's husband Charles and I never had heard no news on him and then also Eva Whipple. She married a Whipple, I wondered about him. They found her living alone in Salem, Arkansas. Me: This old man I know, I don't know if he's right or not, but he tells that the Daltons, James, Youngers and the Vails were all kin. Bill: Well I was thinking that the Youngers were related to the James, but the rest of the Daltons wasn't, but I don't know. Are you going to that deal over in Kansas City? Me: No, I don't think so, are you? Bill: I wanted to but I doubt if I get to. They are supposed to have another story on me in the quarterly, but I don't know, he wrote for some information and that guy over in Montana. Me: Who was Minnie Johnson? Was she a niece of Adeline? Bill: Yes, that rings a bell, that was, she was the cause of Bob's first killing they said. I'd like to go to Coffeyville some time, but just never. Me: I'll send you some information. Bill: Well, I really appreciate that, I'll just wait till I get that then I'll have your address. That Coffeyville paper mentions that Lewis and Adeline were separated. I got a record from Kingfisher Funeral Home and they said this Cole Dalton died Feb 29, 1920 buried there in lot 52 and that's got to be Henry Coleman, isn't it? Me: I wrote to Lawton getting some information and they sent me a record on a Dalton. Bill: Well, he had a claim around Enid. I'd like to have a copy of that. He supposed to have a claim not far from Kingfisher but I never could determine really where it was at. This Phillip Steele book, there is so much of that that ain't even near right. They got him died in California and for instance they got most all of the dates wrong. They have Lit died in California in, I marked it out, I do have a death certificate on him. Me: Steele had a bad source for that book. Bill: Yes, I don't believe he even put born in Cass County 1858, he didn't have a death on him. Me: You're not related to Phillip Steele are you? Bill: No! He's kind of snotty. I don't care for him. I don't write him anymore. He has wrote to me several times to get me to answer questions and I don't write him anymore, because he wants all the information free that I can give and I'm sorry that I sent him all that I did. Steele told me that, I don't remember, his mother, father or somebody had got a middle name Dalton and he didn't know where it came in. Steele was trying to get all the information free, see, and he has a partner over in Texas, I can't remember his partner, Parnell or something like that. Well he buttered me up and got a bunch of information, come to find out him and Phillip Steele and this, another guy in Oklahoma City were all in cahoots. Now, I kind of enjoyed him in the start but I found out that he was with him and I kind of broke off with him. That's kind of the way those three were, and if you ever dealt with them much, you know what I mean. Steele's pretty rotten. I'm sure sorry I got mixed up with those three guys. Well, I'll tell you the way they started out, they started out like, well they were going to help you do the family tree and ship them all the information you possibly could and so on and so on, but it didn't take me too long to see through them. I wrote a story that I had been intending to re-do it, but I may even send you a copy of it. It's not all that good but it's not printed up too well, but any you can kind of get the hang of it. You know I told you I went to Kingfisher Saturday. I went to the cemetery and didn't find the lot I thought .... ( .... the tape ended, but Bill told me he was going to put a new stone on Adeline's grave and put the kids names on the back, etc.)
