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Idummea "Dumma" Seybold

Female circa 1867 - 1928  (~ 61 years)


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  • Name Idummea "Dumma" Seybold 
    Born circa 1867  McDonough county, Illinois, USA Find all individuals with events at this location  [1

    Gender Female 
    Census 1920  Eastern Oklahoma Hospital Find all individuals with events at this location  [2, 3, 4

     
    Died Dec 02, 1928  Craig county, Oklahoma, USA Find all individuals with events at this location 

    Notes 
    • Linda Worstell discovered that "Idumea" is Greek for the Biblical-era a
      rea called Edom. Since Idumea's grandfather, William Rowland Welch, was a p
      ioneer Baptist preacher and her father was apparently active in the Bap
      tist church (having helped found one in Sciota township Illinois), it s
      eems reasonable her name was chosen from the Biblical name.
      When she was 29 years old, in August of 1896, she filed a petition for c
      itizenship in the Cherokee Nation citing her father as a full-blooded C
      herokee and her mother as 1/4 Cherokee and 1/4 Chickasaw. She notes tha
      t her father is deceased and that she is single. The Dawes roll number i
      s 3169 and it's "Nation's No. 2578". It's on the 1896 Dawes rejected li
      st.
      In November, 1896, she married Allen Moore, a Choctaw Indian, and subse
      quently was enrolled in the Choctaw Nation as citizen number 1512. She i
      s on the 1896 Choctaw census roll, Tobucksy County, as No. 14817. She r
      eceived Allen's land in Eastern Oklahoma when he died.
      In 1902, Idumea is examined by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tri
      bes. She says she has lived in the Chicksaw Nation for 4 years. Before t
      hat she lived 4 miles from McAlester.
      On October 5, 1905, she was living in Pauls Valley, Indian Territory an
      d was formally enrolled as a citizen in the Five Civilized Tribes by he
      r intermarriage with a Choctaw, Allen Moore. He was on the 1885 Choctow c
      ensus roll in Gaines County. Allen died in 1897. Idumea is on the 1896 C
      hoctaw Aunt Hazel (11-4-1997) said she was a school teacher and travele
      d all over the world. (She may have been a school teacher, but this res
      earcher doubts she travelled very much, if at all, as she was poor.)
      Pontotoc county records (9/9/1918) mention that she has a per capital p
      ayment as member of the Choctaw tribe. Also that she has about 150 acre
      s in Choctaw county "that is now being claimed by other people."
      -
      On September 9, 1918 her brother, Zeb Seybold, petitioned for guardians
      hip over her, she being declared incompetent due to insanity and being c
      onfined in the Eastern Oklahoma Hospital at Vinita, Craig County, OK (P
      ontotoc County Probate records, case 1781, book 4, page 215). On the 19
      20 census, Craig county Oklahoma, Township 7, Precinct 1, sheet 9A, (fi
      lm T625-1458, p. 127), of January 17, 1920, Iduma Moore is listed as a p
      atient in "Eastern Oklahoma Hospital". Her age is listed as single and 5
      1 years old. In February of 1923, Zeb makes his last recorded report of h
      is guardianship of Idumea where she is listed as being in the "Asylum a
      t Vinita, Oklahoma".
      -
      In the Ada Weekly News (Ada, OK), Jan. 10, 1929:
      State of Oklahoma, Pontotoc County,
      In the County Court Order of Setting Time for Hearing Final Reports of G
      uardianship and Administrators
      Whereas, the following numbered caused have filed for settlement in thi
      s court:
      No. 1821 ....
      No 1781. In the Matter of the Guardianship of Idumea Moore, an incompet
      ent, Zeb Sebyold. Guardian Final Report.
      -

    Person ID I1198  mykindred
    Last Modified Jan 29, 2017 

    Father John Robert Seybold,   b. circa 1832, McDonough county, Illinois, USA
    Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 1891, Ardmore, Carter county, Chickasaw Nation, I.T. (Oklahoma), USA
    Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 59 years) 
    Mother Amanda Jane Welch,   b. May 1844, Kentucky, USA
    Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Bef Dec 1902, Center, Pontotoc county, Indian Territory, USA
    Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 58 years) 
    Married Aug 26, 1865  McDonough county, Illinois, USA Find all individuals with events at this location  [5
    Notes 
    • Doris Seybold, (Zeb's daughter) said that her father never talked of hi
      s family.  Hazel Cloud (Lizzie's daughter) wrote in November 1997 that "
      mama never discussed her family with us."
      A Warranty Deed of October 19, 1870 signed by Jasper N. Seybold and his w
      ife, Henry Etta Seybold, in Sciota township, McDonough county, Illinois d
      eeding land to his brother, John R. Seybold, for the amount of $159.18.
      -
      1870 McDonough County, Illinois census data (from Linda Worstell), Scio
      ta township, p. 25, shows:
      J.R. SEYBOLD, age 38, grocer, born IL
      Amanda J. SEYBOLD, age 24, born KY
      Idonialila (sic) SEYBOLD, age 3, born IL
      Vitua (sic) SEYBOLD, age 5-1/2, born IL
      -
      1880 McDonough County, Illinois census data, Sciota township, p. 5, sho
      ws:
      name, marital status, gender, age, birthplace, occupation, father's bir
      thplace, mother's birthplace
      John SEYBOLD,  M,  M,  49,  IL,  Grocer, KY, KY
      Amanda SEYBOLD,  M,  F,  35,  KY,  House Keeping, KY, KY
      Idumea SEYBOLD,  S,  F,  13,  IL,  At School, IL, IL
      Vetura SEYBOLD,  S,  F,  10,  IL,  At School, IL, IL
      Herman SEYBOLD,  S,  M,  7,  IL,  At School, IL, IL
      Theadore SEYBOLD,  S,  M,  5,  IL,  At Home, IL, IL
      John SEYBOLD,  S,  M,  1,  IL,  At Home, IL, IL
      -
      From these, the birth order of J.R. and Amanda's children is confirmed, A
      manda's middle initial is shown to be "J", and their birth dates can be a
      pproximated.
      List of taxable lots for 1880 and 1881 shows that John R. Seybold paid t
      axes on lots 1, 2, and 3 at the North end of Buel Street on the West si
      de and, in 1882, he paid taxes on one lot and part of another.
      "Macomb Journal", Thursday, June 17, 1882: "Thomas Head has bought the s
      tore building of J.R. Seybold."  And, in the December issue, the notice "
      Mr. Thomas Head has purchased the Seybold property, and will move to to
      wn in the Spring."
      "Sciota news items:  John R. Seybold has gone on a prospecting tour thr
      ough the Southwest.  John has been a long time getting started, but now h
      e has gone -- he means business."
      "Sciota items:  J.R. Seybold and C. Moschel shipped their goods to Texa
      s, last week.  Their families start in a few days."
      After living in Texas for 6 years, J.R. sold his business to his friend
      , Christian Moschel, and moved his family again, in the fall of 1889, t
      o Ardmore, Indian Territory and opened a general store there.  It is su
      spected that J.R. died soon after arriving in I.T.  In Idema's petition f
      or citizenship in the Cherokee Nation in August of 1896, she notes that h
      e is deceased but no date is given.  He (or Amanda after his death) pur
      portedly owned the JR Cattle Ranch close to Antlers and Kiamichi, Oklah
      oma.  Idema said, in her petition to the 1896 Dawes Commission, that he w
      as a Cherokee Indian, but many of her supporting statements appear to b
      e either mistaken or blatantly false.
      On April 7, 1926, his son, Zeb Seybold, wrote the following to a Mr. Em
      mett Seybold in Macomb Illinois on a piece of sheet music he'd publishe
      d:
      "My father ran a store at Sciota, Ill. for 15 years and his name was Jo
      hn Robert Seybold.  He had a brother named George.  My mother was born i
      n Ky.  Her name was Amanda Welch.  She had one relation in Ill. named S
      ylvester Welch.  Do you know of any of these folks and write me their a
      ddress & names .....  P.S. I run a Barbershop, music is just a sideline o
      nly."
      In a letter dated March 8, 1885 from Chatfield Texas, J.R. Seybold writ
      es:
      "Margret Foot
      "Dear Cousin
      "Yours received, & noted. Was glad to hear from you.  We are all well & h
      ope this will find you enjoying the same blessing.  I expect from accou
      nts we have had here, that it has been very cold north.  The winter has b
      een colder than usual here, but the winters here would not be called co
      ld north.  It seldom freezes hard enough to stop the plow. I have two r
      enters on my place; they have planted their corn.  I expect to commence p
      lanting in the morning.  This will give you an idea of the difference b
      etween this climate, & where you are.  I am farming but do not expect t
      o farm longer than this season, if circumstances favors going into the m
      ercantile business.  The crop was not good here last season, money matt
      ers are close here.  Now is a good time to buy land here.  Land is stea
      dly (sic) increasing in value here, & is a good investment.  They gener
      aly (sic) have prety (sic) good schools here, but of course not so well f
      ited (sic) up, as in older states.  The people here are generaly (sic) k
      ind, & clever.  We have as a (????) Illinoians, Indianians, Kentuckians
      , Alabamians, Tenneseeans (sic), & some from other States, but few of T
      exians.  It is best for persons from the North to come here about the 1
      st of Octo, the change is too great in climate to come in the Spring.  N
      ow since I left Ills, I have not heard any thing about the Canada money
      , left there by Silus Seybold.  It is very strange to me that nothing o
      f a definite nature can be learned of it.  There is something wrong som
      where (sic).  Write to John Coffman & see if they have heard out anythi
      ng
      "Now as to this country, it is not as fertile a Soil as Ills, compared w
      ith the part where we lived, but compared with a majority of the States
      , it is a fine soil and excels.  The climate far surpa??? Ills.  I woul
      d not live in as cold a climate as Ills.  I am not far from a 150 miles S
      outh of the North Texas line, & Sometimes I wish I was further South.  T
      here is a good place adjoining me, that's for Sale it belongs to heirs.  T
      hree are not of age yet.  They intend getting a ????? from court to sel
      l it.  It (sic) think it will come in this fall.  If I had the money I w
      ould buy it.  Tell aunt Hatie (??). She is old to change climate, but i
      t might be beneficial to her, but do not come before about the 1st of O
      ct.  The familys best respects to you all, my best respects you all, ho
      ping to hear from you soon.  Bro, George is talking of selling out, if h
      e sells I look for him here this fall, May the Lord watch over us all f
      or good is my prayer.
      Farewell, write soon,
      J.R. Seybold."
      In January, 1889, J.R. sold some land to Christian Moschel, recorded in t
      he Navarro county courthouse.
      Another letter is written to Margaret Foote by J.R. from Rice, Texas in M
      arch, 1890.  The envelope is postmarked "RICE, TEX. (date illegible)" o
      n one side and "DECORRA, ILL  Mar 6, 1890" on the other. It is addresse
      d to:
      "Margret A. Foote
      "Tecoria, Henderson, Co,
      "Ills.
      The stationery is printed:
      "Rice, Texas, ___________
      "To | C. MOSCHEL, | Dr"
      "Dry Goods, Groceries, Hardware, Harness and General Merchandise"
      The name "Moschel" and the word "harness" have been marked through to m
      ake the heading read:
      "J.R. Seybold, Dealer in Dry Goods, Groceries, Hardware, and General Me
      rchandise."
      He had written, in smaller writing, in the upper left hand corner of th
      e stationery:
      "It has been a very warm winter here and lots of l__?__  (illness ??), a
      nd a good many deaths.  Just now it is cold, the coldest weather we hav
      e had this winter.  It turned cold on Thursday night."
      "Rice, Texas, Mar. 2nd, 1890
      "Mrs. Margrett Foote
      "Dear Cousin,
      "Yours of Feb, 25th, 1890, & contents noted, was glad to hear from you, & t
      o hear that you was (sic) all well, & to get information of the relativ
      es, & to hear that Aunt Hatie, your mother was still living, & well, fo
      r one of her age, give her my love, & respects, & hope that she may liv
      e many years yet, & a __??__ providence yet permit us to again, & if no
      t permitted to meet again in this world, grant that we meet again in th
      e heavenly paradise where parting, & Sorrow will be no more.  Since in T
      exas (?), I have heard nothing of Aunt Alley, or of any of her folks, I w
      rote a letter since here (sic) to John Coffman, bur received no answer -
      - I don't know whether he got it, or not, neither have I heard anything o
      f Uncle Dodson & his folks, don't know whether he is still living or no
      t.  Would be glad to know of both.
      "Now Margritt, you speak of looking after that money in Canada, deposit
      ed there by grandfather Jesse Seybolds, brother Silas Seybold for Jesse S
      eybold our grandfather or his heirs, as supposed.  Now Margritt, to tel
      l you the truth I know but very little about it, I know what has been s
      aid, & I am satisfied, that Silas Seybold made a deposit there, but whe
      ther it is just for Jesse Seybold & his heirs or not, I don't know,  No
      w Fredrick Seybold informed me, that a good many ago, there was a Seybo
      ld, --------------------------- into --- log------------, & swam the ri
      ver St. larence (sic) into Canada, to save his life, deposited in Montr
      eal $140,000.00 for a brother, at a bank rate of 3 per cent now we know t
      hat Silas Seybold was the man -----------------------------------------
      --------------- swam the river St. laurence (sic) into Canada to save h
      is life, & also he never returned, but staid (sic) there, & died intest
      ate, that is he had no heirs, & it is reasonable to infer that if he ma
      de a deposit, it was for Jesse Seybold & heirs, for those two brothers w
      ere disinherited by Jasper Seybold, their father.  Now in the year 1830
      , I think it was, that uncle Dodson, & ????? uncle Robert, learned from I t
      hink Daniel(?) Seybold in Indiana, that Silas Seybold was still living, & w
      as very rich.  In the winter of 1870, & 1871, if I remember correctly, I w
      as at Wheaton 25 miles N.W. from Chicago, I learned there from the (Whe
      aton ???) Seybold that about 6 years before that he got a lawyer in Chi
      cago, to investigate this matter, & found a deposit of money, in the Ba
      nk Montreal (sic), Montreal Canada, for W. (or could be an "a") Seybold
      , that it was not for any of his family, beyond this he would not tell m
      e who it was put in by, who it was put in for, when it was put in, or h
      ow much was put in, notwithstanding I had a letter from him stating tha
      t he new (sic) who put it in, who it was put it in for, when it was put i
      n, & how much was put in, but his excuse that he had forgotten, & the l
      etter was lost, that would show how it was.  Guess it seemed with all t
      he parties who I confered (sic) with, who seemed to know anything, that t
      here was a disposition to cover up & keep back what they new.  In my in
      vestigations, I was told by James Seybold that this money was put in th
      e Bank about four years before his death, Jim, might give you some valu
      able information.  Now Margitt, this money I am satisfied will be hard t
      o get all money deposited in a government Bank in Canada or England, in 1
      00 years if not claimed reverts to the English government, hence it is t
      o their interest to cover all such deposits  Hence in my view, there is b
      ut one way to get at it, that is to go to Canada, have the records of t
      he Bank searched by an officer, or employ a good detective to work it u
      p, for a conditional amount of the money if successful, let it not be k
      nown only to him, what you are after.  An American detective would prob
      ably be the best, I think there is a record also, of all deaths ??? the
      re.  If you go there, & have the records searched, I do not think it ne
      cessary to go back beyond the year 1825, for he was alive in 1830, & de
      posit the money some four years before his death.  I sent uncle Toms mo
      ney back to him, I am now packed up to move to Ardmore, I.T.  If you wr
      ite to me, that will be my place of address, ..........................
      . (last four lines mostly unreadable -- and page dog-eared over some te
      xt) .......lect, hence have .............. the information I .... & wil
      l allow you out of my part (hard to read) if, you are successful, my ..
      ... part of, all expenses.  If you do undertake that, I hope .....ill b
      e successful, but you must be very careful, & cautious for it is ....to t
      ake shrewed work to get it."
      "....ell, write soon, Yours Truly, J.R. Seybold
      Note the picture of his store in Ardmore has the date "May A.D. 1890" w
      ritten on the top of the facade, so he must have moved shortly after wr
      iting this letter.
      11-4-1997 Aunt Hazel said that after J.R. died Amanda bought the ranch a
      nd then became ill with TB, sold the ranch for money for medical expens
      es and, while asleep on her pillow, Herman stole the money from under h
      er pillow.  Because of her sickness and death and the loss of their mon
      ey, the younger children were orphaned and passed from family to family a
      nd got no education.  Bill Cloud is said to have taken orphans in to li
      ve with him and to work in his house. Supposedly, he took in Lizzie, as s
      he was working for him when she met Jake Cloud.  Did he also take in Ze
      b and Lena?
      1890 Census Chickasaw Nation I.T. Book 2 Pickens Co.
      Seybold, J.R. and wife  #29180
      J.R. is 58  3 male children  3 female children  Ardmore PO  8 Total in F
      amily
      The female children were Idumea, 23; Vitura, 18;  Lena, 10; and Lizzie, 7 -
      - and perhaps Elma.  Who were the three female children in the househol
      d?  Obviously, Lena and Lizzie, the youngest, were there. So who was th
      e third?  Idumea's 1896 Cherokee citizenship application implies that s
      he did not marry until after that date.  It's possible Vitura was alrea
      dy married (but she's listed as single and living with her mother in 19
      00).  If Elmer/Elma was a female child, this further complicates the is
      sue (there was no one by this name on the 1880 census, so he/she would h
      ave to be less than 10 years old).
      Their male children were:  Herman 17, Theodore 15, Zeb 11 and Theodore m
      ay have already died by this date.  This accounts for the three males, b
      ut where are Arthur and Elmer/Elma?  Previous censuses imply that they w
      ere either dead or born after Zeb and before Lizzie, the youngest.  If T
      heodore was gone by then, Arthur could be the third male.
      J.R. was listed as age 38 in ILL 1870 census, 49 in the ILL 1880 census
      , and 58 in the 1890 Chickasaw Nation, Indian Territory, Pickens County c
      ensus making him born about 1831 or 1832.
      The Oklahoma land rushes were taking place in the 1890 to 1895 time fra
      me.  Perhaps J.R. participated in one of these?
      We know J.R. was dead by 1896 from Idema's Cherokee citizenship applica
      tion and certainly by 1900 from the census in that year sent by Jenny G
      arner jwgarner-at-texas.net> (below).
      1900 Chickasaw Nation, Indian Territory  Township 4 North Range 6 East E
      D 120 Sheet 27  Line 31 (dated June 23, 1900).
      Seybold, A.J.  (female)  May 1844  56  Widow  7 children 5 living  KY U
      NK UNK  Farmer
      Vitery (dau)      Mar 1872  28  Single  IL
      Zeb (son)        Mar 1879  21  Single  IL
      Lena (dau)      Oct 1882  17  Single    IL
      Lizzy (dau)      ? 1885    15  Single    TX
      T 4 N R 6 E would be the area around Ada (in present Pontotoc Co.).  Us
      ing an old map dated 1899 showing Chickasaw Nation, the square would in
      clude Ada (in center bottom); Hird (or Hurd -- can't read word on map) a
      lmost in the center; and Oakman inside but almost at the border of squa
      re on the upper right.  The area includes Ada, but most of it is north o
      f Ada.  Ada was a booming town during that time.
      Note that Amanda's (or whoever talked to the census  taker) statement o
      f seven children differs from Lillian's and Hazel's assertion that thei
      r mother (Lizzy) said her mother (Amanda) had nine children.  Also, thi
      s could well imply that there was no Elmer or Arthur.  If five children w
      ere living, and four are listed above, what about Idema and Herman?  We k
      now Idema lived until at least 1923, so this must mean Herman was dead b
      y this time?  Both aunts Lillian and Hazel and cousin Dardenelle rememb
      er grandmother Lizzy saying that Herman stole the money from their moth
      er while she was dying so he must have died soon after -- before his mo
      ther died.  This could also mean that Amanda died soon after the 1900 c
      ensus.  The fact that Lizzy's birth month is not listed and the year is w
      rong, and Amanda's parents' birthplaces are listed as "UNK" may be a cl
      ue that the information was given by someone other than Amanda who didn
      't have all the facts straight.  Perhaps Amanda was ill at that time wi
      th the tuberculosis that killed her and someone else gave the informati
      on to the census taker?
      (The Chickasaw Nation included all or part of the following twelve pres
      ent day counties: Bryan, Carter, Garvin, Grady, Jefferson, Johnston, Lo
      ve, McClain, Marshall, Murray, Pontotoc and Stephens.)
      According to volume III of CEMETERY INSCRIPTIONS OF CARTER COUNTY, OKLA
      HOMA, which includes Rose Hill Cemetery in Ardmore, it says "In checkin
      g a number of different sources it appears there were two other older, o
      r at least as old, cemeteries in Ardmore.  The remains from at least on
      e of these cemeteries were removed to Rose Hill prior to statehood (190
      7).  One source says around 1895 and another says about the turn of the c
      entury.  A check of the 1895 newspapers did not reveal any stories conc
      erning a cemetery move.  Rose Hill was opened for burial in 1895 and on
      ce called South Cemetery."
      The book "INDIAN TERRITORY AND CARTER COUNTY PIONEERS" says "In April 1
      895, the largest fire in the history of Ardmore started in Harper's Liv
      ery Stable on North Caddo.  Due to high winds, the fire spread rapidly t
      o the back of the stores on Main Street ... several merchants were unin
      sured."  Perhaps J.R.'s store was destroyed then? Perhaps he died in th
      e fire?
      In a letter dated 2-21-1997, Aunt Hazel (Cloud) Brown wrote of their fa
      mily: "1. Herman, no children; 2. Iduma, no children; 3. Theodore, died y
      oung; 4. Arthur, no children; 5. Zebulon, four children: John, Lyn, Irm
      a; 6. Lena, no children; 7. Vitura, one daughter, Theo Harris, married t
      o Martha Harris children Opal, Winfred, Arthur, Allen, they had oil wel
      ls, last account of them they were in Sulphur, Oklahoma; 8. Elizabeth - m
      other and had ten children."
      On 2-23-1998, aunt Hazel said "momma said her mother had 9 kids".  Thou
      gh I can find no evidence of either Elmer/Elma or Arthur, Hazel's recol
      lection lends credibility to their having been children of Amanda and J
      .R.

      [6]
    Family ID F1136  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Family Allen Moore,   b. 1871,   d. 1897  (Age 26 years) 
    Married Nov 10, 1896  [7
    Notes 
    • "Application of Idummea Moore for enrollment as an intermarried citizen o
      f the Choctaw Nation. ....
      Q. What is the name of your Choctaw husband through whom you clam these r
      ights?
      A. Allen Moore."
      The surname of Idumea's husband also determined from the Pontotoc Count
      y Probate records, case 1781, book 4, page 215, "Seb (sic) Seybold, gua
      rdian for Idumea Moore, incompetent".
      -
      1920 census, OK, Craig, Venita, ed 20, 9-A, Jan. 17
      Eastern Oklahoma Hospital, line 4
      MOORE, Idumea, patient, F, W, 51, single, can read and write, IL, IL, K
      Y
      -

    Family ID F1016  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Documents
    Seybold, Idummea
and
Seybold, Cora
    Seybold, Idummea
    Indian Citizenship Applications

  • Sources 
    1. [S14] 1870 US federal census .
      McDonough County, Sciota twp census lists her as 3 years old.


    2. [S27] Worstell, Linda: "Osias Welch ...." .

    3. [S3967] 1920 US federal census .
      census of Craig county Oklahoma, Township 7, Precinct 1, sheet 9A


    4. [S5185] Oklahoma State Department of Health, Vital Records Division , https://ok2explore.health.ok.gov/App/DeathResults
      .

    5. [S57] Illinois Marriage Record Index , License 2473-1/2, McDonough County
      .

    6. [S135] 1880 US federal census .

    7. [S2548] Commission to Five Civilized Tribes , Choctaw D 417; Intermarried; Dec. 22, 1902
      .
      In the matter of the application of Idumea Moore for enrollment as an i
      ntermarried citizen of the Choctaw Nation.