LOOSE ENDS: (spurious questions
regarding William Cloud (ca 1800-ca 1850), husband of Margaret Frizzle and son
of Jeremiah Cloud)
Any information contradicting
these conclusions is welcomed.
If anyone believes that the research evidence does not support these facts, please
contact any of these Cloud Family
Researchers, and specifically,
Tom Cloud, editor.
1. There was a Jeremiah Cloud who married an Elizabeth Martin in
Stokes County, North Carolina on 9-5-1799 or 1800. Was this our Jeremiah?
- It is certainly possible -- the dates are right, though NC was a little
far afield since our Jeremiah was born in Georgia and probably still lived there (the "elder" William was also born in Georgia while William Jasper Cloud (the "younger") was born in Alabama).
2. If Jeremiah was listed in his obit as Sr. who was the Jr.
- Donít know ..... perhaps one of his grandsons?
3. If there is a William Cloud Sr, son of Jeremiah, who died in 1850
why was he not shown as deceased in Jeremiah's probate until 1871. Why was he
not shown as deceased prior to 1871?
- This is confusion from reading the probate -- from the very first, the reference
was to either "the children of Wm. J. Cloud" or to "the children of Wm. Cloud,
son of decsd.". The probate makes more sense when itís realized that there were
two Wm. Clouds, with the father dying before 1850 and the son dying about 1868.
Read in that light, it can be seen that there is never an instance when the
senior William Cloud is indicated to be alive. (Also note that the elder is
never referred to as "William J." with a middle initial.)
4. Another William J. Cloud (supposedly Jr.) died in 1871.
- Yes, Wm. Jasper has September 9, 1871 on his tombstone -- but the probate
begins to refer to him as deceased as early as July of 1870, ten months earlier.
What does this mean ... a wrong date on the probate? Perhaps his tombstone wasnít
put in place for a long time and a mistake was made on it?
5. When Jeremiah moved to Alabama, how old was the elder William
- If Jeremiah left Georgia in 1812, William Sr. was about 12. He would have
been about 16 when they arrived in Alabama in 1816 and he married there in 1825,
when he was 25.
6. When Jeremiah moved to Texas why did that son (elder Wm.) remain
- Perhaps because his father-in-law, Thomas Frizzle, had given his daughter, William's wife, a sizable portion of land and they preferred to farm that land and remain near her family.
7. Can we show that the elder William Cloud had a son named William
J. Cloud (1826-1871) who came to Texas and also had a son named Thomas Newton
- The proof is substantial -- including the matching of Jeremiahís probate
with census records and the letter from Thomas N.
to F.M. Cloud. Research has shown no other families that match the record
of the probate -- or the mention of T.N. saying he had a sister named Elizina.
Also, the proximity in location and time of land purchases in Alabama by the
Clouds, Frizzles and Cobbs.
8. There were several Jeremiah Clouds in Georgia, South Carolina,
and Alabama at the same time.
- No information found yet for 1810 GA. In 1820 GA, none are listed in the
index. In the index for 1830 Georgia, there is only one Jeremiah listed in Hamersham
- No information for SC (please supply if you have it).
- In 1810 Alabama - no CLOUD's were listed; in 1820 Alabama - have nothing,
not sure why; in 1830 Alabama - Frank (Jackson Cty), HGW (Montgomery Cty),
Jeremiah (Montgomery Cty), Samuel G. (Monroe Cty); in 1840 Alabama -
(Francis (Jackson Cty), HGW (son of Jeremiah -- Montgomery Cty), J. F. (Pike
County), Jason (Benton Cty), William (Madison Cty), William (son of Jeremiah
-- Pike County). Notice that there is only one Jeremiah Cloud listed,
our ancestor, and he is listed only on the 1830 census of Montgomery county.
9. How can we be sure we have the correct William Cloud tied into
our Jeremiah and our William J. Cloud?
- The "preponderance of the evidence" points, without exception, to this being
true. Any information contradicting these conclusions is welcomed.
If anyone believes that the research evidence does not support these facts,
please contact any of this Cloud
Family Researchers, and specifically,
Tom Cloud, editor. (Also,
see the discussion in question 7 above.)
10. I would like to know that the (senior) William Cloud in Alabama
was definitely the son of the Jeremiah who came to Texas and that he had a son,
William J. Cloud (1825-1871).
11. The younger William J. settled in Milam County. Why did he not
settle in Austin County where Jeremiah was?
- Leonard has said he moved to Texas about 1851 with Elizabeth and settled
in Washington County. J.C. and he moved later to Milam County, apparently shortly
after the indictment of a brother (he and JC posted bond for Alex on a murder
indictment). Where is the proof for these statements? We do have
evidence that William Jasper Cloud married Elizabeth Jane Boyd in Alabama in
1849 and was on the 1850 census there. We know that he had a child born
in Texas in 1853 (Christopher Columbus Cloud) and was in Milam county by the
1870 census. Speculation: He stayed with his father and
mother (William and Margaret Frizzle Cloud) when Jeremiah came to Texas because
he was too young -- 10 years old. When he did decide to go to Texas he,
for some reason, chose to join his uncle J.C. in Milam county rather than going
to the "old home place" in Austin county where his grandfather Jeremiah had
settled. .... or perhaps he did settle in Washington county first, but what
were his reasons?
12. Who was the William J. Cloud who purchased cattle and horses
from the Jeremiah Estate? Was it the younger? Rumor has it that he traveled back
and forth to Alabama not only to trade in cattle and horses but he had another
- It could not have been the elder -- he was dead by 1850 and Jeremiah didnít
die until 1861. Also, William Jasper Cloud's father is never referred
to in any known literature with a middle initial.
13. Who was the other Thomas N. Cloud that had a sister named Elzena?
- The probate and census show that he was the
son of the elder William Cloud and an uncle to the Thomas Newton born in Milam
county. The records of Montgomery county show him on the censuses there,
show him marrying there and we have a copy of his CSA pension application as
well as his death certificate (1915).
14. Our William Jasper Cloud (1825-1871) (the younger) had a son
named William Cloud.
- Yes, William Lafayette Cloud.
15. Who was the father of the William J. Cloud born in 1874 after
our William J. died in 1871?
- It is either unknown, or the dates in the Bible or in this writerís database
are in error -- because William Lafayette, son of Wm. Jasper Cloud, had a son
he named William Jasper who was allegedly born in 1875. But William Lafayette
Cloud and Nancy RUTHERFORD married in 1870 and he was their eldest child, so
an earlier birth date would seem more reasonable than the later one.
16. Jeremiah's probate records
show that (the younger) William J. Cloud's family shared in the estate in the
same ratios as those living, as proscribed by Texas probate.
- This is not true -- examination of the probate indicates that the children
of the elder William J. split their fatherís 1/9th inheritance four
ways -- and that the children of the younger William J. only received 1/4th
of that 1/9th portion.
17. Thomas N. (T. N., etc) lived in Alabama with his mother (Elizabeth
Jane(Boyd) Cloud) and sister(s) in 1878-1880. He moved there to try to support
his siblings in Texas after reconstruction, working for a railroad. There
are documents to support this. In them, he refers to his "Uncle F. M."
the administrator of Jeremiah's Estate (Elizabeth was dead by then).
- The editor does not have any documentation to this effect but would welcome
seeing it -- and itís not clear what it would mean to this investigation --
if this is true, perhaps he went back to Alabama because his grandmother Cloud
and/or his uncles still lived there -- as the probate indicates. (It appears
the documents referred to are the letters
of Thomas Newton Cloud, the son of the elder William Cloud,
to his uncle, F.M. Those two letters DO NOT substantiate the claim that
Thomas Newton Cloud, the son of William Jasper Cloud, spent any time in Alabama
working on a railroad!.)
18. The obit of H.G.W. Cloud shows he came to Texas in 1846.
- This could certainly be true. He was in Alabama per 1840 census and Milam
TX in 1850 census. Mary Lou (Park) Freeman said the Cloud family came in two
waves - one in the 1830's and the other about 1846. Why did he finally go? He
was blind by that time, which may have been a reason (perhaps he wanted to be
near his family), but we will probably never know.
19. The obit of T. N. Cloud shows he was born in Milam County and
his parents came to Texas in 1845 and his father died in 1872 and left a widow
and 10 children.
- There were 11 children -- but only 9 living when Thos.N.ís father, Wm. Jr.
died. His father has a tombstone engraved with a death date of Sept 9, 1871
but the probate refers to him as deceased in July of 1870. Is Wm. Jrsí. tombstone
in error? Is Christopherís also? Perhaps Thomas N. just forgot the
details, since the death dates of his father and brother were so close -- and
T.N.ís obituary was written in 1914, by someone other than him.
20. The newspaper article of 1930 about the Cloud family reunion
states that Wm. J and Elizabeth came to Milam County in 1853 and that Wm. J died
in 1870 and left a widow and 9 children.
- It would appear no one really knew when William died -- the probate begins
to refer to him as deceased as early as July of 1870 while his tombstone says
September of 1871. It would appear that they were at least correct about the
9 children since Christopher died in 1868.
21. The family Bible page submitted to the Cloud family association
by James Walton Cloud (deceased) shows Wm. J. and Elizabeth and children and
grandchildren. It shows a Wm. J. born 10-21-1874. This is after Wm. J. (1825-1870/72)
- The death date above needs to be corrected to read 1870-1871. Second, he
had two grandchildren named William J. Cloud -- one b. 1875 and one b. 1908.
Perhaps the Bible record is of William J., allegedly born September 1875, son
of William Lafayette Cloud. (The marriage date of William Lafayette of 1870,
with Wm. J. being the eldest born 5 years later, makes an earlier birth date
editor would very much like to have a copy of this Bible
page to make available to the rest of the family.
22. The voter registration of 1867 shows a Wm. J. Cloud in Travis
County, a native of Texas, age 29.
- In the 1850 census is a Wm. J. Cloud, 12 yrs old, TX living in the household
of #498 (Printer) Jos. Walker, 35 m Ohio and Ann, 34 f PA; in the 1870 census,
he is shown as age 31, born in Texas. His wife is Rebeka, born in Ohio.
23. The voter registration of 1867 shows a Wm. J. Cloud in Milam
County, a native of Alabama with 15 years residence in Texas.
- This is our William Jr. -- the dates given imply arrival in Texas circa
1852, which is what we think is true. He does not show up on the 1860 census
of Milam county but is on the 1870 census there, implying he was alive at the
time of the census -- or someone answered the census taker while he was out
of town -- where he is said to have died. Itís certainly conceivable that he
may have already been dead at the time of the census.
24. The 1850 Census of Bexar County shows a Wm. J. Cloud, age 12
a native of Texas, living with a Joseph and Ann Walker.
- This appears to be the same person from question 22 above and 25 and 26
below. He doesn't fit any information known thus far about our family.
25. The 1850 Census of Bexar County shows a Wm. J. Cloud in Bexar
County as a head of household.
- The only William J. Cloud in the index is 12 years old (see above): [#498
(Printer) Joseph WALKER, 35 m Ohio; Ann, 34 f Pa; William J. CLOUD,12 m Tex.].
Also in the 1850 census is #221 (Farmer); Robt. PATTERSON; 49 m Tenn; Robt H,11
m Ark; Wm W, 9 m Ark; E. M. S. CLOUD, 11 F Ark; 4 slaves.
26. The 1860 census of Texas shows a William Cloud in Cooke County
and a W. J. Cloud, age 22 in Gonzales County.
- No information at this point on the Wm. in Cooke county. The index of Gonzales
county says his initials are "K.J."; the 22 year old Wm. J. Cloud in 1860 fits
the 12-year-old of 1850 (22, 24, 25 & 26 above) but, either way, he would have
been born circa 1838 and does not fit either of our Williams in question. (Even
if the Gonzales county Cloud were a "W.J.", that only shows that the name "Wm.J.
Cloud" was neither unique nor prevalent -- it does not address or refute the
evidence presented by the dovetailing of the census records with Jeremiahís
probate and the letters written by Thomas N. Cloud.)
27. The 1870 Census of Texas shows a Wm. J. Cloud in Milam County
and a Wm. J. Cloud in Travis County and a William Cloud in McLennan County.
- The first would be our junior William J married to Elizabeth Boyd. The second
is the same person married to Rebeka (22, 24, 25 & 26 above). The third in McLennan
county was 21. He was born in Tennessee and appears to be a farm hand on the
28. The 1880 Census of Texas shows William Clouds in Jasper County,
Milam County, and Travis County, and a Wm. J. Cloud in Atascosa County.
- The first (Jasper County) was 31, born in Mississippi and his parents were
born in VA. The second (Milam County) is our William Lafayette Cloud who married
Nancy. By 1880, they had two children William (age 5), and Thomas (age 3). The
third (Travis County) was age 41. He AND his parents were born in TX. Difficult
to read the name of his wife, but it looks like Sacha. They had a bunch of kids
- Walker, Lula, Horton, Lola, Frank, Emma, John and Maggie. Their ages ranged
from 14 to 4 months.
- There were other William J. Clouds in Texas. There is a William J.
Cloud from Montgomery county Alabama: b. 22 Feb 1894 (res.
Navarro Co., TX in March 1915, just turned 21) [In 1911, according to his sister
Sallie, he was a minor, age 17, living in TX, father deceased, with an
estate in his own right of ca $250. His guardian had been O. S. LEWIS,
but M. M. SWEATT took over as gídn in 1911.] His sister, Sarah ďSallieĒ
R. CLOUD b. ca 1888 AL m. 14 June 1908 Mntgy: John H. AVINGER
(b. ca 1876 AL). (See
Clouds of Montgomery
county Alabama and
Marriages in Alabama.)
29. The 1900 Census of Texas shows a W. J. Cloud in Kimble County.
- No data on the 1900 census at this point -- but what could this possibly
add to the research on Wm. Sr, who died before 1850, or on Wm. Jr., who died