LOOSE  ENDS:  (spurious questions regarding William Cloud (ca 1800-ca 1850), husband of Margaret Frizzle and son of Jeremiah Cloud)

Any information contradicting these conclusions is welcomed.   If anyone believes that the research evidence does not support these facts, please contact any of these Cloud Family Researchers, and specifically, Tom Cloud, editor.

1.  There was a Jeremiah Cloud who married an Elizabeth Martin in Stokes County, North Carolina on 9-5-1799 or 1800. Was this our Jeremiah?

  • It is certainly possible -- the dates are right, though NC was a little far afield since both were born in Georgia and probably still lived there.

2.  If Jeremiah was listed in his obit as Sr. who was the Jr.

  • Don’t know ..... perhaps one of his grandsons?

3.  If there is a William Cloud Sr, son of Jeremiah, who died in 1850 why was he not shown as deceased in Jeremiah's probate until 1871. Why was he not shown as deceased prior to 1871?

  • This is confusion from reading the probate -- from the very first, the reference was to either "the children of Wm. J. Cloud" or to "the children of Wm. Cloud, son of decsd.". The probate makes more sense when it’s realized that there were two Wm. Clouds, with the father dying before 1850 and the son dying about 1868. Read in that light, it can be seen that there is never an instance when the senior William Cloud is indicated to be alive. (Also note that the elder is never referred to as "William J." with a middle initial.)

4.  Another William J. Cloud (supposedly Jr.) died in 1871.

  • Yes, Wm. Jasper has September 9, 1871 on his tombstone -- but the probate begins to refer to him as deceased as early as July of 1870, ten months earlier. What does this mean ... a wrong date on the probate? Perhaps his tombstone wasn’t put in place for a long time and a mistake was made on it?

5.  When Jeremiah moved to Alabama, how old was the elder William Cloud?

  • If Jeremiah left Georgia in 1812, William Sr. was about 12. He would have been about 16 when they arrived in Alabama in 1816 and he married there in 1825, when he was 25.

6.  When Jeremiah moved to Texas why did that son (elder Wm.) remain behind?

  • Who knows for sure, but the fact that his father-in-law had given his wife land might explain it.

7.  Can we show that the elder William Cloud had a son named William J. Cloud (1826-1871) who came to Texas and also had a son named Thomas Newton Cloud (1858-1914).

  • The proof is substantial -- including the matching of Jeremiah’s probate with census records and the letter from Thomas N. to F.M. Cloud. Research has shown no other families that match the record of the probate -- or the mention of T.N. saying he had a sister named Elizina. Also, the proximity in location and time of land purchases in Alabama by the Clouds, Frizzles and Cobbs.

8.  There were several Jeremiah Clouds in Georgia, South Carolina, and Alabama at the same time.

  • No information found yet for 1810 GA. In 1820 GA, none are listed in the index. In the index for 1830 Georgia, there is only one Jeremiah listed in Hamersham county.
  • No information for SC (please supply if you have it).
  •  In 1810 Alabama - no CLOUD's were listed; in 1820 Alabama - have nothing, not sure why; in 1830 Alabama - Frank (Jackson Cty), HGW (Montgomery Cty), Jeremiah (Montgomery Cty), Samuel G. (Monroe Cty); in 1840 Alabama - (Francis (Jackson Cty), HGW (son of Jeremiah -- Montgomery Cty), J. F. (Pike County), Jason (Benton Cty), William (Madison Cty), William (son of Jeremiah -- Pike County).  Notice that there is only one Jeremiah Cloud listed, our ancestor, and he is listed only on the 1830 census of Montgomery county.

9.  How can we be sure we have the correct William Cloud tied into our Jeremiah and our William J. Cloud?

  • The "preponderance of the evidence" points, without exception, to this being true.  Any information contradicting these conclusions is welcomed.   If anyone believes that the research evidence does not support these facts, please contact any of this Cloud Family Researchers, and specifically, Tom Cloud, editor.  (Also, see the discussion in question 7 above.)

10.  I would like to know that the (senior) William Cloud in Alabama was definitely the son of the Jeremiah who came to Texas and that he had a son, William J. Cloud (1825-1871).

11.  The younger William J. settled in Milam County. Why did he not settle in Austin County where Jeremiah was?

  • Leonard has said he moved to Texas about 1851 with Elizabeth and settled in Washington County. J.C. and he moved later to Milam County, apparently shortly after the indictment of a brother (he and JC posted bond for Alex on a murder indictment).  Where is the proof for these statements?  We do have evidence that William Jasper Cloud married Elizabeth Jane Boyd in Alabama in 1849 and was on the 1850 census there.  We know that he had a child born in Texas in 1853 (Christopher Columbus Cloud) and was in Milam county by the 1870 census.  Speculation:  He stayed with his father and mother (William and Margaret Frizzle Cloud) when Jeremiah came to Texas because he was too young -- 10 years old.  When he did decide to go to Texas he, for some reason, chose to join his uncle J.C. in Milam county rather than going to the "old home place" in Austin county where his grandfather Jeremiah had settled. .... or perhaps he did settle in Washington county first, but what were his reasons?

12.  Who was the William J. Cloud who purchased cattle and horses from the Jeremiah Estate? Was it the younger? Rumor has it that he traveled back and forth to Alabama not only to trade in cattle and horses but he had another family there.

  • It could not have been the elder -- he was dead by 1850 and Jeremiah didn’t die until 1861.  Also, William Jasper Cloud's father is never referred to in any known literature with a middle initial.

13.  Who was the other Thomas N. Cloud that had a sister named Elzena?

  • The probate and census show that he was the son of the elder William Cloud and an uncle to the Thomas Newton born in Milam county.  The records of Montgomery county show him on the censuses there, show him marrying there and we have a copy of his CSA pension application as well as his death certificate (1915).

14.  Our William Jasper Cloud (1825-1871) (the younger) had a son named William Cloud.

  • Yes, William Lafayette Cloud.

15.  Who was the father of the William J. Cloud born in 1874 after our William J. died in 1871?

  • It is either unknown, or the dates in the Bible or in this writer’s database are in error -- because William Lafayette, son of Wm. Jasper Cloud, had a son he named William Jasper who was allegedly born in 1875.  But William Lafayette Cloud and Nancy RUTHERFORD married in 1870 and he was their eldest child, so an earlier birth date would seem more reasonable than the later one.

16.  Jeremiah's probate records show that (the younger) William J. Cloud's family shared in the estate in the same ratios as those living, as proscribed by Texas probate.

  • This is not true -- examination of the probate indicates that the children of the elder William J. split their father’s 1/9th inheritance four ways -- and that the children of the younger William J. only received 1/4th of that 1/9th portion.

17.  Thomas N. (T. N., etc) lived in Alabama with his mother (Elizabeth Jane(Boyd) Cloud) and sister(s) in 1878-1880. He moved there to try to support his siblings in Texas after reconstruction, working for a railroad.  There are documents to support this.  In them, he refers to his "Uncle F. M." the administrator of Jeremiah's Estate (Elizabeth was dead by then).

  • The editor does not have any documentation to this effect but would welcome seeing it -- and it’s not clear what it would mean to this investigation -- if this is true, perhaps he went back to Alabama because his grandmother Cloud and/or his uncles still lived there -- as the probate indicates. (It appears the documents referred to are the letters of Thomas Newton Cloud, the son of the elder William Cloud, to his uncle, F.M.  Those two letters DO NOT substantiate the claim that Thomas Newton Cloud, the son of William Jasper Cloud, spent any time in Alabama working on a railroad!.)

18.  The obit of H.G.W. Cloud shows he came to Texas in 1846.

  • This could certainly be true. He was in Alabama per 1840 census and Milam TX in 1850 census. Mary Lou (Park) Freeman said the Cloud family came in two waves - one in the 1830's and the other about 1846. Why did he finally go? He was blind by that time, which may have been a reason (perhaps he wanted to be near his family), but we will probably never know.

19.  The obit of T. N. Cloud shows he was born in Milam County and his parents came to Texas in 1845 and his father died in 1872 and left a widow and 10 children.

  • There were 11 children -- but only 9 living when Thos.N.’s father, Wm. Jr. died. His father has a tombstone engraved with a death date of Sept 9, 1871 but the probate refers to him as deceased in July of 1870. Is Wm. Jrs’. tombstone in error?  Is Christopher’s also?  Perhaps Thomas N. just forgot the details, since the death dates of his father and brother were so close -- and T.N.’s obituary was written in 1914, by someone other than him.

20.  The newspaper article of 1930 about the Cloud family reunion states that Wm. J and Elizabeth came to Milam County in 1853 and that Wm. J died in 1870 and left a widow and 9 children.

  • It would appear no one really knew when William died -- the probate begins to refer to him as deceased as early as July of 1870 while his tombstone says September of 1871. It would appear that they were at least correct about the 9 children since Christopher died in 1868.

21.  The family Bible page submitted to the Cloud family association by James Walton Cloud (deceased) shows Wm. J. and Elizabeth and children and grandchildren. It shows a Wm. J. born 10-21-1874. This is after Wm. J. (1825-1870/72) died.

  • The death date above needs to be corrected to read 1870-1871. Second, he had two grandchildren named William J. Cloud -- one b. 1875 and one b. 1908. Perhaps the Bible record is of William J., allegedly born September 1875, son of William Lafayette Cloud. (The marriage date of William Lafayette of 1870, with Wm. J. being the eldest born 5 years later, makes an earlier birth date believable.)  The editor would very much like to have a copy of this Bible page to make available to the rest of the family.

22.  The voter registration of 1867 shows a Wm. J. Cloud in Travis County, a native of Texas, age 29.

  • In the 1850 census is a Wm. J. Cloud, 12 yrs old, TX living in the household of #498 (Printer) Jos. Walker, 35 m Ohio and Ann, 34 f PA; in the 1870 census, he is shown as age 31, born in Texas. His wife is Rebeka, born in Ohio.

23.  The voter registration of 1867 shows a Wm. J. Cloud in Milam County, a native of Alabama with 15 years residence in Texas.

  • This is our William Jr. -- the dates given imply arrival in Texas circa 1852, which is what we think is true. He does not show up on the 1860 census of Milam county but is on the 1870 census there, implying he was alive at the time of the census -- or someone answered the census taker while he was out of town -- where he is said to have died. It’s certainly conceivable that he may have already been dead at the time of the census.

24.  The 1850 Census of Bexar County shows a Wm. J. Cloud, age 12 a native of Texas, living with a Joseph and Ann Walker.

  • This appears to be the same person from question 22 above and 25 and 26 below.  He doesn't fit any information known thus far about our family.

25.  The 1850 Census of Bexar County shows a Wm. J. Cloud in Bexar County as a head of household.

  • The only William J. Cloud in the index is 12 years old (see above): [#498 (Printer) Joseph WALKER, 35 m Ohio; Ann, 34 f Pa; William J. CLOUD,12 m Tex.]. Also in the 1850 census is #221 (Farmer); Robt. PATTERSON; 49 m Tenn; Robt H,11 m Ark; Wm W, 9 m Ark; E. M. S. CLOUD, 11 F Ark; 4 slaves.

26.  The 1860 census of Texas shows a William Cloud in Cooke County and a W. J. Cloud, age 22 in Gonzales County.

  • No information at this point on the Wm. in Cooke county. The index of Gonzales county says his initials are "K.J."; the 22 year old Wm. J. Cloud in 1860 fits the 12-year-old of 1850 (22, 24, 25 & 26 above) but, either way, he would have been born circa 1838 and does not fit either of our Williams in question. (Even if the Gonzales county Cloud were a "W.J.", that only shows that the name "Wm.J. Cloud" was neither unique nor prevalent -- it does not address or refute the evidence presented by the dovetailing of the census records with Jeremiah’s probate and the letters written by Thomas N. Cloud.)

27.  The 1870 Census of Texas shows a Wm. J. Cloud in Milam County and a Wm. J. Cloud in Travis County and a William Cloud in McLennan County.

  • The first would be our junior William J married to Elizabeth Boyd. The second is the same person married to Rebeka (22, 24, 25 & 26 above). The third in McLennan county was 21. He was born in Tennessee and appears to be a farm hand on the Cautwell Farm.

28.  The 1880 Census of Texas shows William Clouds in Jasper County, Milam County, and Travis County, and a Wm. J. Cloud in Atascosa County.

  • The first (Jasper County) was 31, born in Mississippi and his parents were born in VA. The second (Milam County) is our William Lafayette Cloud who married Nancy. By 1880, they had two children William (age 5), and Thomas (age 3). The third (Travis County) was age 41. He AND his parents were born in TX. Difficult to read the name of his wife, but it looks like Sacha. They had a bunch of kids - Walker, Lula, Horton, Lola, Frank, Emma, John and Maggie. Their ages ranged from 14 to 4 months.
  • There were other William J. Clouds in Texas.  There is a William J. Cloud from Montgomery county Alabama:  b. 22 Feb 1894   (res. Navarro Co., TX in March 1915, just turned 21) [In 1911, according to his sister Sallie, he was a minor, age 17, living in TX, father deceased,  with an estate in his own right of ca $250.  His guardian had been O. S. LEWIS, but M. M. SWEATT took over as g’dn in 1911.]  His sister, Sarah “Sallie” R. CLOUD   b. ca 1888 AL m. 14 June 1908 Mntgy:  John H. AVINGER  (b. ca 1876 AL).  (See Clouds of Montgomery county Alabama and Cloud Marriages in Alabama.)

29.  The 1900 Census of Texas shows a W. J. Cloud in Kimble County.

  • No data on the 1900 census at this point -- but what could this possibly add to the research on Wm. Sr, who died before 1850, or on Wm. Jr., who died 1870-1871?

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